Reaching Your Peak with William Louey | Featuring Charlie Gao
In this episode of Reaching Your Peak with William Louey, William sits down with one of his earliest scholars from the William S.D. Louey Educational Foundation, Charlie Gao, for an intimate and wide-ranging conversation exploring friendship, ambition, resilience, and purpose. Travelling from China to Hong Kong for the discussion, Charlie reflects on a relationship that began over three decades ago when he was selected for William’s scholarship program in the mid-1990s — an initiative inspired by William’s grandmother’s quiet philanthropy.
Together, William and Charlie revisit the transformative power of education and exposure to new environments, discussing how such opportunities cultivate open-mindedness, adaptability, and a sense of purpose beyond personal success. Charlie shares how his early experiences abroad shaped his worldview, instilling in him the resilience and empathy that later guided his transition from banking to entrepreneurship. Their conversation delves into leadership, partnership, and the enduring value of learning from failure — themes that echo William’s philosophy of persistence, goodwill, and shared success.
The two reflect on the generational shifts shaping modern China, exploring how prosperity has altered the mindset of younger generations and the challenges of nurturing drive and independence in times of abundance. Drawing on his own journey, Charlie closes with three guiding principles: cultivating outward sensitivity, turning inward to confront fear and insecurity, and setting empowering goals rooted in purpose — lessons he credits to the scholarship that changed his life and continues to inspire others to reach their own peak.
Episode Transcript:
William Louey: Hello, I'm William Louey. Welcome to my series Reaching Your Peak. And it's appropriate because I live on The Peak and we interview people from all walks of life. Today we have our ex-scholar Charlie Gao, who has flown specially into Hong Kong from China. So he's looking a bit casual. Don't worry! Charlie, so welcome to Hong Kong.
Charlie Gao: Thank you, William.
William Louey: We have been friends for 30 years.
Charlie Gao: Yeah.
William Louey: Actually, more than 30 years, of course, because, you know, I interviewed you and then by the time I send you guys to the school, you know, to the boarding school in England, it's kind of like a year or two later. So we've known each other 1995. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's wonderful. This program is about reaching your peak. Can you give my audience, you know, what is your tips of reaching your peak? Thank you.
Charlie Gao: I mean, this is, I guess, the billion-dollar question.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Gao: I like the way you phrase it because I think everybody has their own definition of what reaching the peak means. Because most people would ask, how do you get ahead in life? How do you really achieve certain life goals? But what I would say is maybe don't think about it too much. The short answer is just let it be. Because I think what you have inherent in yourselves is. I mean, it will bear out. And you know what I think is sometimes maybe reaching your peak or your full potential is always more fun when you aim for something else and get it as a byproduct. Aim for something that's grander than yourself, greater than yourself, and that always works out to your. Maybe beyond your expectations. I think when I always have you in my mind as my example, I'm sure when you came to China 30 years ago and launched a scholarship, it wasn't because you wanted to get ahead. It wouldn't help you in terms of purely personally gain.
William Louey: Exactly.
Charlie Gao: But you did it anyway. I can only guess, but my best estimate is that you did it because it needed to be done and that's something fun to do.
William Louey: I did it because I just had this idea because I was inspired by my grandmother who was a philanthropist and she did very secret. She did it in secret. Nobody knew that she was doing charity, which I think is the highest level of doing charity without getting any recognition, without getting any honour from any organisation. She just does it. She did, quietly. So I was brought up with her and then I decided to help. I just had this idea of helping the brightest people. I was thinking that they could change the world. Changing the world, right? So I was going to just help a handful. Because after the first year, I enjoyed it so much. It became my passion. So now it's the 30th year.
Charlie Gao: 30 years with passion. Right?
William Louey: I just interviewed the first, you know, my first batch of scholars in Beijing last week. I was so inspired by three of them.
Charlie Gao: Wow. Yeah, yeah, you know, just that, you know, continuation of effort. Right. You're still doing the interviews yourself. I chose to apply to your scholarship and also accept it when it was presented. I think also it wasn't. I mean, people think, oh, of course, that was a big changer in my life. My life path completely altered because of you, because of your scholarship. But back then, thinking back, I didn't choose it because it could get me somewhere better. Nobody knew what was going to happen and how well we would do in England. So thinking back, I also took this, I guess, more off the beaten path option because it was more challenging, was more interesting and like you said, you could open new possibilities. I think exploration of potential is the only way to really find your true passion and.
William Louey: Exactly.
Charlie Gao: And, you know, and really take the most out of life.
William Louey: So we were talking about passion leads to hard work and hard work is automatic because hard work doesn't feel like hard work. So you just keep on, you know, so you just keep on doing what you like doing. So it doesn't feel like work.
Charlie Gao: Right.
William Louey: And you're enjoying yourself. Right, Right. And I, I had this idea of sending you guys to, to boarding school. Top boarding schools in the, in, in the UK. It was because I believe in networking and it's no point just being a good student, getting 100 in your exams.
Charlie Gao: Right.
William Louey: And you don't know nobody. Right. You know, the world is about connection, about interaction. Right, right. Right. So I sent you to top boarding schools and you met the right people. And then you went to Cambridge and you met another set of bright people and then you went to work for Morgan Stanley.
Charlie Gao: That was, that was really crucial. Yeah, I mean, I'm a little bit ashamed to say that I'm not very good at networking.
William Louey: All my scholars said they're not good at networking. But you have to be good at networking in order to get to this stage.
Charlie Gao: I think really being exposed to a different environment. I'm sure everybody left a mark on me.
William Louey: Bad people leave a mark on you as well. And you learn from them.
Charlie Gao: Right, Exactly. I think the key point is to broaden the views. So in terms of Millfield, or even before Millfield, I think what really, I still remember to today really left a big mark on me was how personally you took the whole thing. So you picked us up from Heathrow on our first trip, on our first flight.
William Louey: Yeah. Not many people knew that. I make sure I arrived a day before you guys.
Charlie Gao: Exactly.
William Louey: Because it was the first time you ever travelled outside of China. So I wanted to make sure that you guys would be okay. So I had to wake up at 4am in the morning, to go to Heathrow, met up with you guys and then took you on a nice tour around London, show you the museums and, you know, all sorts of places. Exactly, yeah.
Charlie Gao: I mean, really, even before we got to the school, Millfield, there were already so many unexpected comings or happenings that really shocked us. I mean, people talk about culture shocks. I think people have different definitions or different experiences. We knew it was going to be hard.
William Louey: Was it visual shock or was it like.
Charlie Gao: It was the whole body experience.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Gao: I mean, I never told you this probably, but it was the first time we saw, you know, those Norwegian, not Norwegian, but, you know, Scandinavian TV shows, you know, how liberal they were. We were really shocked.
William Louey: You know, we never talked about that.
Charlie Gao: You know, we didn't understand everything that was going on. But yeah, we were just amazed how explicit the content was. How could you show this kind of stuff on TV? But I think really very soon we got over it because initially we were just panicked because people were making jokes. People like to be humorous and make jokes. And I was thinking to myself it wasn't just that we're boring, but we couldn't pick up on the jokes because we didn't know which line was serious or which one was meant to be. The whole life seemed like a joke.
William Louey: I actually deliberately chose that school for you guys because I knew all of you were extremely academic and I wanted you to experience other aspects of life. And Millfield was wonderful because it had 70 nationalities, such diversity. So you are mixed with people from different religion, different skin colour, different habits, you know, and I want to enrich your, you know, to widen your horizon. The world is not just us, you know, there are many, many. There are many people.
Charlie Gao: Right.
William Louey: So I deliberately send you there to. I even asked you not to study too hard because I knew you were so good and, you know, to, you know, participate in everything outside of academic.
Charlie Gao: Right, right.
William Louey: So it was deliberate.
Charlie Gao: That's a good piece of advice.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah. You know, increase. One big advice is to widen your horizon. See more.
Charlie Gao: Right.
William Louey: You see, the less, you see the more you become frightened of what you don't know.
Charlie Gao: Exactly.
William Louey: You see.
Charlie Gao: You know, that actually recalls, really, our first days in Millfield. Because if, you know, the first couple of weeks was a complete chaos. Right. We were trying to figure out.
William Louey: For me, too, I was brought up in Hong Kong. When I arrived in Millfield, it was like, so huge. I got lost going to the lessons.
Charlie Gao: It was so. We didn't know we had to pick our own lesson. In China, you stayed in your own classrooms. Teachers would.
William Louey: Yeah, we go to the left. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Gao: Now, they said the other way around, but really, I think the academics helped me because it kind of served as an anchor something. Because that was something that we know how to continue to do well in.
William Louey: Right.
Charlie Gao: So what really, how I found ground, so to speak, was that maybe after a couple of weeks, then we figured out, oh, even though these people look different, talked different and behave different, but fundamentally, you know, deep down inside, they all had the same concerns, the same worries. Yeah. We have the same set of.
William Louey: We should embrace differences. We should embrace differences. I embrace people who are different. All my friends, you know, they have. They have to be very special, you know, or, you know, to inspire me, you know, that's so important. Yeah.
Charlie Gao: Later on in life.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Gao: One word I've sort of picked up on is you become unfazed. You know, it's a demystification process.
Charlie Gao: Actually, all the scholars, I think there were six of us in my year. We didn't know each other before we got on the plane. And of course, I think you did on purpose that you spread us out in different boarding houses. So we maximise our exposure.
William Louey: Yeah, exactly.
Charlie Gao: So we only got together during holidays, you know, half terms and summer winter vacations. I still remember. You know, we were of course, excited. You know, after maybe month and a half of total chaos, we came back together with our fellow countrymen and we're discussing things and we were pointing at each other and said, look, we were trying to figure out what was my criteria. Yeah, exactly. What your criteria was. How did we get selected, what set of standards you had. And then we couldn't, for the heaven of God, couldn't figure out uniforms, you know, set of standards.
William Louey: No, no, I. I look at each other. Nobody's the same. Nobody's the same. You know, I don't think I wanted to help. At that moment, everybody in China, right, you know, how could they afford the school fees in the UK, you know, everybody, you know, came from a needy family, you know. You know, although you're both your parents, you know, they're educated people and in fact, most all my scholars parents are very educated and that's why they brought you up so well. But I picked you guys. It's because China at that time was going through. Everybody had to work hard and they have a goal, they had to have a goal and they were hungry and they were. They wanted to succeed no matter what.
Charlie Gao: Their path to success was very uniform.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Gao: There wasn't a lot of options.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah. You know, when I compare my Hong Kong skilled scholars and my China scholars started at the same time, you know, my China scholars are in some way more successful than my Hong Kong scholars. Different. It's different. But, you know, because, you know, they have. The Hong Kong scholars are still very conformed to the Hong Kong way, whereas my, you know, China nowadays is so diverse and they're so open to new.
Charlie Gao: Things, you know, that's a very good point. So after studying in England for a few years and working in Hong Kong, I went back to China in 2011 and I reconnected with people who I went to school with, in China, my classmates in Sijong and earlier in middle high school. And I felt, because like you said, the entire country was catching up, it was opening up and the economy was developing. So by the time that we were into our maybe, you know, 10 years or more of working age, then, you know, we started having interactions again. You know, I keep in touch with a lot of my friends from the old days, even not just in life, but also in business. But what I detect in terms of difference in our view of the world is that I think I'm much more accommodating, I'm much more accepting towards different opinions and different perspectives. And I attribute all of that to the fact that you gave us the opportunity to see the world at such an early age when our brains are still developing and our view of the world is still forming. So naturally we became much more acceptive towards different opinions and perspectives, which I think is crucial, especially in today's world. Back in my school days, I think I was already at university then. We were trying to set a goal for my career. And back then we were thinking, oh, maybe playing that bridge role was going to be valuable because there was such a wide gap between the west and the East. People in the UK and the United States really didn't understand what was going on in China and maybe we could be the link.
William Louey: Exactly. So, you know, go back to how I chose you guys. You know, I deliberately chose. Everyone had different personality. Some are stubborn. Stubborn is a good thing. You know, stubborn doesn't mean, you know, people think that. Persistent shortcoming. Yes, persistent and resilience. Right. You want to succeed, you fail. In fact, you know, learning from failure is much more important than success.
Charlie Gao: You know, what just came up to me is it's really, we're all different in our own ways. But one thing, if there's one thing that we had in common was that we all accepted who we were.
William Louey: Yeah.
Charlie Gao: We didn't feel ashamed of how different we are.
William Louey: Exactly. We just felt comfortable with it and carried on because I felt good being different. So I wanted to choose everyone who. All my scholars are different, but the only common thing that they share is that they are all academic, they're all bright and character. Nobody has the same character. Even twins don't have character. That's why I, you know, I embrace differences like, you know, I open, you know, have to, you have to be open minded. I think it's one of the qualities of being a good leader is to be open minded as well. And then you can see what is the virtue of that person, what is what they're good at, what they're not good at. And then you put the team together and then they feel each other's shortcomings.
Charlie Gao: Right.
William Louey: I think that is the, you know, that's how you reach, you know, how do you overcome these challenges? Charlie, do you have any tips on, you know, has something really traumatic happened to you and then you. How do you overcome that?
Charlie Gao: I think the big difficult transition for me was when I switched from more of a banker or advisory role to a more of a venture or what we call sort of industry jargon is from jumping from the sell side to the buy side is creating your own business. And also that coincided with my employer asking me to focus more on China. Because when I first started my career in Hong Kong, I was travelling all across Asia. We were working on Australian deals, Japanese deals, even. I almost went to India for something. But later on we all had to develop our own specialty. Of course, China’s economy was rising because our cultural background, it was natural. So when I made the switch, then we had to make very tough decisions. When you were an advisor, your interests are more or less aligned with their client. You help them succeed and then you share in their success.
William Louey: Yeah.
Charlie Gao: But when you are doing business as a proprietor, so you have your own books to consider, then it becomes more. I don't want to say this in a low fashion. It's not a bargain. You gain, I lose. But really, you had to design schemes to gain advantage commercially. And sometimes you had to really shape what you say and what you don't say. And you had to think of ways, design ways to lead people into decisions that you want them to.
William Louey: Solving problems. Right. These are challenges that, you know, if you have a way to solve it, then there's no longer a problem.
Charlie Gao: Nobody was telling us how to set a life goal or how to really know what was truly rewarding over the long term.
William Louey: Yeah.
Charlie Gao: That you couldn't find in a textbook or.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah. On a business you just learn on.
Charlie Gao: The, you know, you had to figure it out.
William Louey: Figure it out. Yeah.
Charlie Gao: Right. Of course, you know, I was lucky enough to come across another, you know, what I would call Gui Yan. You, of course, my. The first and the biggest. But really this is somebody that we invested in as a business entrepreneur who now owns the largest shoemaker in the world. So initially we were counterparties and we were buying a piece of their company and then took them public. Later on, he became my patron in terms of when I started my own fund. But really he showed us how you can make a successful business by also considering all of your partners. How, how they can share in your success and they can later on carry you forward.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Gao: And it's very similar to your concept of philanthropy. You're not asking for a payback, but you really want this gesture of goodwill or this positive mentality to be carried forward.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Gao: And, you know, really widen that impact.
William Louey: Yeah.
Charlie Gao: Through a multiplier effect. So I think that really echoed with me. And then that that was sort of how I broke out of the tunnel, so to speak. Oh, maybe that was the direct.
William Louey: You came from, you know, the China that is like 30 years ago. Would you say that you were much harder working, more hungry than the people nowadays? And how do you, you know, now your children are affluent, like you have built them a good life. How do you make them hungry?
Charlie Gao: Right. Maybe we have a higher degree of tolerance in terms of how, you know, what we can endure. Yeah. But I think the kids nowadays, you know, what they call the millennium millennials, I think they're just being more chilled, they're not so tense, they're not old, we're not fight, fight, fight every day. I think they're also, they have their own sense of humour that people talk about being laid back, you know, Tang Peng all the time. Yeah, but I don't think, you know, most of them are really thinking, no.
William Louey: I don't think most of them are. That at least 150 people I see every year, they're definitely not like that.
Charlie Gao: It's just when they've lost this socially commonly accepted model of success and they had to find their own ways, I think they have to go through that selection process or orientation process by themselves. And sometimes they have to. I think that the environment is probably even harsher today in the sense that they have to be a little bit more rebellious than we had to be. I mean, we had you to back us up. Now they all had a good life to start with.
William Louey: That's why we have the duty when we have the capability of helping others.
Charlie Gao: We should definitely help parents in my generation. So what I mean is, you know, myself being a parent in China particularly, have this tendency to have an inflated sense of themselves because we went through the past 30 years of economic success in the entire country. So most of us lead a much well-off lifestyle than our parents and grandparents. So people tend to think, oh, I did all that, but I think we were just born in the right time.
William Louey: In the right place. Yeah, right. So I was born in the right time in the right place as well.
Charlie Gao: But you were very clear minded about that. But I think a lot of people in my generation, they're not so clear. So they're very strong minded in terms of this is what you have to do. And also it's harder for my kids generation because now when they go abroad, this happens to Oscar, my youngest son, right now when he goes to Europe or to the States, he sees infrastructure that is less developed than China and he doesn't have the same level of admiration that we had towards the West, even just 20, 30 years ago, why would I come here to look what do I learn off?
William Louey: Right.
Charlie Gao: This is the culture they see all the chaos or the, you know, gun violence or the drugs and all that. We don't have that in China. Yeah, we have much better, you know, high speed rail lines, you know, much better, you know, office buildings and sometimes, you know, arts and you know, exhibition, even design.
William Louey: I certainly have very good experience travelling to China.
Charlie Gao: Right.
William Louey: Nowadays, I mean I've seen China development in the last 30 years in. In fact the first time I was in China was 1978, way, way before you were born. I was able to see the difference between 78 to 2025. So every year I went there was improvement. And now what I see in China is so impressive that I just want to visit China more now because I've spent more than half my life in the west. My education, my work, my friends, you know, more than half of my life in the west now China is really an eye-opening country.
Charlie Gao: Exactly, yeah. So I think to a certain extent it's much difficult for children in today's world, in today's China, in this generation to break out of their comfort zone and willingly open their eyes to the world for us. You know, when the opportunity dropped literally out of the sky, when you dropped out of the sky, you know, the.
William Louey: An important role luck plays, an important. I'm lucky to have found you.
Charlie Gao: No, it was a no brainer for us. Of course we'll take it.
William Louey: Right, yeah. You know, some people joke, putting joke, you know, people, how do you trust this William Louey? You know, that was 30 years ago.
Charlie Gao: How do you know he's not a human trafficker?
William Louey: Well, 30 years ago when my, when Alistair was born, you know, and I had this idea of, you know, I don't want, I was brought up, I was lucky actually, I considered myself lucky to be brought up in a broken home because I had to, you know, I had to deal with my mother and my father and they didn't get along and I have to say the right thing. And at that time I thought it was really bad, you know. But then it turns into a good thing for me because now I become, you know, I can adapt to people much easier than people who come from an easy life. Right. So I deliberately create a relatively difficult life for my children. My son went to boarding school and he was 8 years old, you know. You went when you were 14, right. So he went when he was 8. So I created this problem. People think we were cruel, but you know, but his life that, you know, it's not my life, it's my son's life. So he has to learn to be independent. And then when you guys came along, you inspired him a lot because he knew that, he knows that you started from nothing and then you achieved all this. So he has no excuse. He has all the best teachers, all the best schools, all the good tuitions, you know, whether in sports or in mathematics, in whatever subject we gave him the best.
Charlie Gao: And you're a much better father than I am.
William Louey: No, you created all this. I realised this, you know, affluent children because I've seen so many, you know, people who were my peers, for example. Actually we're all enjoying our parents crops, you know, we don't have to work hard at all. Right. But I choose to become, you know, to do philanthropy and work hard in my own company. But because it gives me satisfaction, it gives me, it's like a passion. I have so many passions. I like creativity. But then at the end of the day, being responsible is also very important. Responsible to the family. And I want to set this example to my kids that I'm responsible for the family. I can't always do what I like.
Charlie Gao: I mean, it's much more difficult to, to go from comfort to hardship. Hardship or distress.
William Louey: Yeah.
Charlie Gao: The other way around.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Gao: So in a way, people coming from, you know, wealthy or affluent backgrounds, they. It's much easier for them to become more monotonic and pigeonholed.
William Louey: Yeah, yeah. In their view. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah.
Charlie Gao: So I think that's the problem that they, you know, I'm seeing in, in the young people in the children today in China. Right. Because you never know whether it's a curse or blessing. You know, a curse may be a blessing in disguise.
William Louey: Yeah, exactly. Can you advise my viewers how to get good head start and how to sustain it and how to, you know, how to reach your peak?
Charlie Gao: Giving advice is a very dangerous thing to do. Yeah, I can, in terms of summing up my own experience.
William Louey: Your own experience?
Charlie Gao: Yeah. If I had to break it down into three steps, I think the first is probably to develop your own sensitivity, outward sensitivity. Number two is, I guess, turning all that attention inward and have this consciousness of your own deepest fears, your own deepest insecurities. Because at least for me, those things are the most fundamental drivers of some of the things that you do and maybe you're not so proud of or, you know, against your will or something, you know, you regret later. Yeah. So really turn that attention inward and really figure out what are some of the rewarding things that you've done and how you can expand on that. The third thing is how do you set a goal or build something that is empowering and that really I guess the root of that thought to again your most invaluable help in my life. Right. Just because what you're doing is empowering is really enabling us, you know, giving us a broadened view.
William Louey: Yeah.
Charlie Gao: And I think that is never too cliche, that is never too out of date, that is always needed. I owe all of that experience, all that learning to you.
William Louey: I learned it from you as well, Charlie. Wow, thank you so much. What a lovely conversation we had today. Oh, thank you so much, thanks very much for flying all the way to Hong Kong and doing this.
Charlie Gao: It's always a pleasure.
William Louey: Yeah, thank you.
Charlie Gao: Always great to come back to The Peak.
William Louey: Thank you.